Brown, Part 2; #8
Updated: Nov 9, 2021
The Reservation Roll Brown’s
Several Brown’s are on the Reservation Rolls. Each family who signed up for the Reservation Rolls agreed to settle back East in or near the Old Cherokee Nation. Each were to be given 640 acres. There are seven Brown’s: Alexander, James, John, John Sr., John Jr., Polly, and William. There are a John and a William in Walker County, Alabama living near one another. Old men by those names are alive in 1830, while on the 1840 census younger men, also named John and William, are living in the places of their fathers. We know they are the same because both Coleman Brown and Christopher Gist are close neighbors of them in both the 1830 and 1840 census records. The website above provides a search feature, which is where I obtained the seven names listed. There is a caution, where the website says; “This is only an index of applicants, the people listed here did not in most instances receive the reservation they requested.” But there are just so many people who claim one or another of these seven, and how can we know which John belongs to which family. More information is supposedly stored at the National Archives n various locations, but I have tried and tried to get information from the National Archives in Fort Worth, and all I have ever gotten is the run around. I have both mailed and emailed them, and called them on the telephone, and they will not make me a copy (for a fee) of the information I ask of them. Why, I don’t know. I’ll keep trying.
Two Brown’s Ferrys [32 and 33]
That’s right, there were two of them. There was the one mentioned above near what is today Chattanooga, Tennessee, run by 1/8th Cherokee John Brown. That is the one everyone knows about. But there was a second Brown’s Ferry on the Tennessee River in Northern Alabama, on the border between Limestone and Lawrence Counties. Ricky Butch Walker says in “Warrior Mountain Folklore” (p 11) that Doublehead’s Village was originally located in present day Lawrence County, Alabama at Brown’s Ferry and was known locally Moneetown. Moneetown refers to “Big Water Town”. Melton’s Bluff is just a few miles down the Tennessee River from Brown’s Ferry. Walker says (p 10) According to Ann Royalle’s letter, originating ftom Melton’s Bluff, dated January 14, 1818, the Cherokee Village of Melton’s Bluff was established between 1788 and 1793. Vicki Rozema in “Footspeps of the Cherokee” says virtually the same thing, although I suspect their sources are not independent of one another.
From “Doublehead, Last Chickamauga Cherokee Chief”, also by Ricky Butch Walker, p 73, we have the following; Histotrical records indicate that Doublehead lived at his Chickamauga Indian town at Brown’s Ferry from the 1770s through December 1801. According to “History of Alabama by Albert James Picket (1851), “Dec. 1801: Emigrants flocked to the Mississippi Territory . . . constructing flat boats at Knoxville, they floated down the river to the head of the Muscle Shoals, where they disembarked at the house of Double-Head, a (p 74) Cherokee Chief.” . . .From Doublehead’s town, the Emigrants followed the Brown’s Ferry Road to Gourd’s Settlement (Courtland, Alabama) where it intersected with Gaine’s Trace.
And I remember as I read this, what was said of Jason Cloud of Ridenhour’s “Land of the Lake,” mentioned earlier -- p. 34 -- Captain Cloud was active in the flatboat trade down the [Tennessee] river and was associated with the small group of men who played an important part in the settlement of the Mississippi River Valley. Bingo! Cloud was a flat boat captain, and these settlers constructed flatboats at Knoxville (where our mixed-blood Aron Gist was hung, also late in 1801). Jason Cloud knew John Brown, and here we have flatboats landing at the second of the two Brown’s Ferry’s, in Lawrence County, Alabama, which is the county where OUR John Brown married in 1820, and where our Gist’s are first mentioned in 1818. Per the historic record, these settlers disembarked at the house of Doublehead! Jason Cloud seems to have known Doublehead, as well. John Chisholm, grandfather of Jessee Chisolm for whom the Chisholm Trail was named, probably knew Jason Cloud, as he was a business partner of Doublehead’s.
Trouble with Our Browns
Since the last writing, I have seen and heard of some problems with the writings of Ricky Butch Walker. Also I hve been in contact with a Cherokee Nation genealogist. Here is that conversation.
The Conversation with a Cherokee Nation Genealogist
Me --
howdy CNG,
Well if you want to help me with genealogy, I can give you some material I suppose. Thanks. I can start with dad was A. O. Hawkins, 1915, b. farm near Manitou, Tillman Co., Ok-1992 d. Altus, Jackson County, Ok. His mother was Loney Richey, b. Lewiston, Denton Co., Tx 1883 per delayed birth certificate. [She] m. Noah Hawkins 1904 Loco, Pickens District, Chickasaw Nation,. d. near Manitou, Ok 1963) Her parents were Jeffrey Richey (b. Ark, 1851 d. 1926 Tillman Co., Ok) and Josephine Brown (b. Ark 1854, m. to Jeff 1872. d, Tillman Co., Ok 1932. Per great uncle [Oscar Richey] in Indian/Pioneer Papers, after they married they moved to IT near Fort Smith. Great Uncle said he didn't know if they lived in Sequoyah or Leflore Co, as he didn't know which side of the river they lived on. By 1880 they lived in Denton Co., Tx. By late 1880s moved to Chickasaw Nation.
CNG --
what did the A.O stand for?
me --
Lona Richey's mother was Josephine Brown. Josey's parents were David Brown and Harriet Guess/Gist. Have no photo of David, b. Al abt 1822 d. Ark May 1865. A tin-type of Harriet exists, though. Some census records say [Harriet was] b. Tn and some say Ala. She was b. abt 1817 or 8 and died 1886 Denton Co., Tx. They married 1841, Shelby Co., Tn (Memphis). Also showing tin-type of Harriet with her granddaughter my great aunt Etta, but we called her “[Ain’t] Ettie”. That baby was an elderly woman when I met her in the early 60s. I think she died in the late 60s. It was her family that preserved that old tin-type. Dad passed in 1992, and one by one so did all his brothers. I realized only a sister survived so I
CNG --
is this him?
Otho C Hawkins
Age: 9
Holton, Tillman County, Oklahoma, USA
Residence
1930
11 Apr
Age: 19
Holton, Tillman County, Oklahoma, USA
Parents
Noah Allen Hawkins
1875 –
Lona Clementine Richey
1883 – 1963
me --
YES! That's my family. They were always listed as White on census records. OC was dad's brother, Otho Cecil. AO stands for Alpha Omega Hawkins, called "Al" and "Alpha" but he was said to have also been named after great uncles on both sides (the Richey and the Brown) named "Alfred". There was an Alfred Richey and an Alfred Brown.
CNG
ok
me --
I don't want to make claims and all -- those are family stories only -- and we are not documented as Indian -- AT ALL! I remember them saying they thought about signing up for Dawes, but got mad or upset or something, and they never signed up. David Brown's parents were John Brown and Mary (Polly) Black and can be found living on the Tennessee River near what is Decatur, Alabama, today.
me --
I hope I haven't said anything wrong. I don't make any claims -- just these are family stories and might be wrong.
CNG --
oh no honey sorry i had to go [personal]
That’s My John Brown
CNG --
have you seen this
John Brown, (Cherokee) in the U.S. House of Representative Private Claims, Vol. 1
Record Image Index-only record
Report issue
Name: John Brown, (Cherokee)
Nature of Claim: Compensation for improvement on lands relinquished
Congress: 23
Session: 1
Manner Brought: Petition
Journal Page: 50
Referred to Committee: Indian Affairs
Me --
No, I haven't seen that. Does it have something to do with the Reservation rolls? One of my biggest problems seems to be there were a lot of "John Browns". Which is which? Sorry to hear about [personal].
CNG --
this is the John Brown the records were connected to ........
John Brown
Birth 1795 in Unknown
Death 1855 in Walker County, Alabama, USA
Marriage to Mary Polly Black
1820
23 Dec
Age: 25
Residence
1840
Age: 45
Lawrence, Alabama, United States
Death
1855
Age: 60
Walker County, Alabama, USA
Spouse & Children
Mary Polly Black
1801 – 1885
David B. Brown
1822 – 1865
Malinda Amanda Brown
1828 – 1880
Nehemiah Brown
1829 –
Elizabeth A. Brown
1834 – 1922
Alfred L. Brown
1837 –
Nancy Y. Brown
1840 –
Martha L. Brown
1843 –
Orleny Brown
1845 – 1889
Cynthia Brown
1846 –
CNG --
John Brown Jr in the U.S., War of 1812 Service Records, 1812-1815
Name: John Brown Jr
Company: COL. MORGAN, JR.'S, REG'T CHEROKEE INDIANS.
Rank - Induction: PRIVATE
Rank - Discharge: PRIVATE
Roll Box: 27
CNG --
this is on David Brown
CNG --
Prisoner Of War
David was listed on a roll of prisoners from Corinth, Mississippi at Provost Marshal's Office October 14, 1862. He was at the battle of Shiloh, Pittsburg Landing Tennessee; the Battle of Iuka, Mississippi on 19 September 1862, the battle of Corinth on the 3rd & 4th; Hatchie on the 5th and 6th of October.
me --
THAT IS MY JOHN BROWN!! How did you do that? My David was at the Battle of Corinth, but I didn't know he was also at Shilo. I thought he might have been because Corinth was fought shortly after. Where/how did you find these things! That Brown family moved to Arkansas and those same names are found in later Arkansas census records. Let me see and make sure I have this right. THOSE Browns are associated with a Cherokee named John Brown? You did that so easily! I've looked for 20 plus years!!
CNG --
Sometimes you have to search by last name with the dates to many times people use nick names or the names get confused down the line in searched for my grandmother as JJJJJ for 20 years just to fall over her real name LLLLL one day
Me --
THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!!! I'VE GOT TO GET A COPY OF THAT!! I can't believe it! Sorry for the upper case. I'll definitely pay you something for a copy of that material on John Brown and his family, especially where it mentions his family. That information is priceless, to me, anyhow. You can name your price.
CNG --
no
i charge nothing
send me your e-mail address and i will put it in an e-mail
Vance
vhawkins1952@msn.com. Then CNG, I am in your debt. Again thank you.
it will be coming from [email address].
me –
Thanks -- I had really [almost] given up on ever discovering anything else. I'll be looking for it.
CNG --
ok i sent this conversation you should be able to print it out
me --
I have it. Thanks. I need to get a copy of the original. I'll be taking off work for a week next month. I have a project to work on, now.
CNG
lol
i hope it is your family that would be so exciting
me --
I know they will be!
CNG
i also will keep snopping a little
do you have access to the cherokee rolls
me --
Thanks. I have access to some of them. I got frustrated because I had no way of knowing which John Brown was which. There are several of them! But you mentioned his children's names, and they are the same names we have! It will still be difficult to know which of the Brown's on the rolls are our relatives, and which aren't.
CNG --
there are 3 john Brows on the 1817 reservation rolls in arkansas
but it will take some researching by you to identify them or rule them out
i am going to share with you this site
me --
Yeah, and I think mine went to Arkansas, and also returned to Alabama. I don't know how to rule one out or where to go, beyond the rolls.
CNG --
http://cherokeeregistry.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=387&Itemid=582
Cherokee Rolls
Our mission is to preserve and document the history, culture and genealogy of the Cherokee people. We provide the tools and resources with which descendants can discover and preserve their family heritage, learn more about who they are, and join together with tribal members.
cherokeeregistry.com
you check family names and compare birth dates to many see a name on the rolls and think that is there family without really researching it
but john and polly are on the 1817 resevation roll look for your self
List of Reservation
Res ID Last First
60 Brown Alexander
61 Brown James
62 Brown John
63 Brown John Jr.
64 Brown John Sr.
65 Brown Polly
66 Brown William
Me --
So I guess John Jr would be mine, then?
CNG --
they may all be yours they could all be family
but that polly and that John are cherokee
and you have the land agreement in our conversation
me --
And that is where they lived. [we] first discovered [them] in Northern Lawrence County, Alabama records, but later records put them further south in Winston and or Walker Counties. And the children that are mentioned in Alabama in 1850 are the same children in Arkansas census records in 1860, and they are the same children in the records that you have shown me as belonging to this Cherokee Brown family. I have usually only seen the father's name with no idea how to discover the names of the children or sometimes the wife. This changes things..
CNG --
awesome
I am happy i could walk a little on your journey my dear
me --
Well so am I. Shocked and awed! I am in your debt.
CNG --
all you owe me is a good thought now and then lol
me --
you got it!
CNG --
i am here almost every day so if you have any questions feel free do send me a message
me --
will do.
CNG --
now you can tell your family [John Brown] is [listed as John Brown Jr.] on the 1817 reservation rolls lol
me --
I suspected that roll, and also suspected that is why we weren't on later rolls. It is my understanding the people on the reservation rolls agreed to assimilate and left the Cherokee Nation.
well thanks again, will talk later
CNG --
The 1817 Cherokee Reservation Roll Results
A listing of those applying for a 640 acre tract in the East in lieu of removing to Arkansas. This was only good during their lifetime and then the property reverted back to the state.
This is only an index of applicants, in most instances the people listed here did not receive the reservation they requested. We will be posting the remaining documents surrounding the Reservation Roll including a list of actual recipients in the near future.
CNG --
yes talk to you any time
A Second Conversation with Her
05/25/2015 9:52am
me
CNG -- howdy! Or Osiyo! Thanks again for all your help. I wrote congressional sources and received some of the paperwork on the Brown's., John and James. They lost land in Hamilton Co., Tn when the land was ceded, it says. It looks like John's lands went to David Fields, a reservee. But I still can't tie THIS John Brown to my family, that is, the John Brown with the wife named Mary (Polly) Black. I descend from their eldest son David. How did you connect MY John Brown with the John Brown who is mentioned in congressional records? Sorry, but when I work I don't have a lot of time. I'll be off work all week so I can look into things. thanks, V
CNG --
I just have you the documents that were with that persons family tree
me --
Well, thank you. You gave me hope that there does exist, somewhere, that link . . . appreciate the help.
Somehow I lost connection with you. would you mind if I asked you some more questions?
Wed 11:12pm
me-
Here is the Mary/Polly (Black) Brown you found "somewhere". The first is in Walker Co, AL 1950 and the 2nd in Lawrence Co, Ark 1860. My g-g-grandpa David Brown was in Lawrence Co, Arkansas too. This is the same family you found and told me was the John Brown Jr in the Reservation rolls.
me --
I found this group of people who talked about the "Echota Cherokee Tribe of Alabama" and I had just joined them after last talking to you. They started calling me "wannabe, fake, phoney", and so on. I asked why what they had against this Alabama group but It made no sense to me. I believe you are friends with this group. I went to post on a genealogical DNA group and one member of this group shouted out -- Vance is a fake Indian, a wannabe, and he's crazy. . .”; and she went on and on . . .I am at a loss. Why are these folks lying about me? I was very confused.
Thu 5:01am
CNG
I am not sure what group was it
Thu 8:36am
Me --
When I contacted them I was just hoping to find out what the Cherokee Nation had against state recognized groups, and I got more than I bargained for. I will continue to believe more Cherokee people are like you than them. Thank you for helping me find my Brown's. Best wishes.
CNG
the struggle is a tough one ...when the nations split ...meaning when some stayed behind and chose not to go on the trail of tears they gave up the right to call themselves Cherokee and became just a citizen of the united states ...some later in 1924 fought for their right to call themselves Cherokee there for the Baker roll was compiled and became the North Carolina band....because the others gave up the Native American citizenship they are not nor ever will be recognized as Cherokee , and the most they can be called is descendants but still have no rights
CNG
No it is not right, but it is Cherokee politics.
CNG
Now state tribes do not require proof of lineage and pretty much let anyone who believes in their heart they are native to join .... mostly for a monthly or yearly fee and the five civilized tribes view them as culture thieves, the states don’t mind if they claim Native because it generates state grants and revenue .... there is money in having a token Indian tribe in your state
me
. . . I wish those other people I asked the same question to had been more patient, and given me more time to think about it I didn't want to offend anyone. I understand [that my ancestors] left the Cherokee Nation when they started living in Lawrence Co., Alabama, and were living as US citizens rather than Cherokee citizens. I'm 64 -- will be 65 in December, and I am not quite as healthy as I was a few years ago. I just wanted a piece of paper I could hold up and say; "I'm also Cherokee" or of partial Cherokee ancestory, too." I wanted to do that while I am still alive. That's why I’ve done 20 plus years of research, and why I joined [the Echota Band of Alabama Cherokee] . . .
CNG
They are considered a fake tribe
Me --
. . . Again, thanks for talking to me in a friendly manner and not accusing me of anything. I had just joined them after I first came in contact with you a couple of years ago and wasn't aware there was a problem with [State Recognition] at that time.
CNG
i am always here my dear if you need me
me --
Awww . . . you are very kind . . . thanks.
Alabama records say John Brown married Polly Black Dec. 23rd, 1820.
The Melton’s
This brings us to an interesting family – the Melton’s, about whom Melton’s Bluff was named. In Doublehead, Walker quotes another book, Lore of the River, by William Lindsay McDonald. McDonald is quoted as saying:
John Melton and his Cherokee wife had a number of children; the names of some of them are believed to have been Moses, James, Charles, David, Thomas, and Merida. Walker adds Moses Melton is listed in microfilm archives as the son of Lewis. Let us consider the two men I have underlined: David and Lewis.
https://dc.library.okstate.edu/digital/collection/kapplers/id/26278
AT the above website a treaty signed by only 2 Cherokee – Captain Dutch and David Melton. It was signed in 1835, the treaty following the events that keep popping up, the Dragoon Expedition of 1834 in Indian Territory where the American Army first encounters the Comanche, Kiowa, and Wichita Tribes of Western Oklahoma.
The Act of Union
The following website takes us to “The Cherokee Act of Union” Act of Union Between Eastern and Western Cherokee, 1838 - Oklahoma Genealogy
and it says:
Act of Union Between Eastern and Western Cherokee, 1838
Whereas, our fathers have existed as a separate and distinct nation, in the possession and exercise of the essential and appropriate attributes of sovereignty, from a period extending into antiquity, beyond the records and memory of man; and, Whereas, these attributes, with the rights and franchises which they involve, remain still in full force and virtue; as do also the national and social relations of the Cherokee people to each other, and to the body politic, excepting in those particulars which have grown out of the provisions of the treaties of 1817 and 1819, between the United States and the Cherokee Nation, under which a portion of our people removed to this country, and became a separate community; but the force of circumstances have recently compelled the body of the Eastern Cherokee to remove to this country thus bringing together again the two branches of the ancient Cherokee family; it has become essential to the general welfare that a Union should be formed and a system of government matured, adapted to their present condition, and providing equally for the protection of each individual in the enjoyment of all his rights.
Wherefore, we, the people composing the Eastern and Western Cherokee Nation, in national convention assembled, by virtue of our original and unalienable rights, do hereby solemnly and mutually agree to form ourselves into one body politic, under the style and title of the 'Cherokee Nation.'
In view of the union now formed, and for the purpose of making satisfactory adjustments of all unsettled business which may have arisen before the consummation of this Union, we agree that such business shall be settled according to the provisions of the respective laws under which it originated, and the courts of the Cherokee Nation shall be governed in their decisions accordingly. Also, that the delegation authorized by the Eastern Cherokee to make arrangements with Major General Scott, for their removal to this country, shall continue in charge of that business, with their present powers until it shall be finally closed.
And, also, that all rights and titles to public Cherokee lands on the East or West of the river Mississippi, with all other public interests which may have vested in either branch of the Cherokee family, whether inherited from our fathers or derived from .any other source, shall henceforward vest entire and unimpaired in the Cherokee Nation, as constituted by this Union.
"Given under our hands, at Illinois Camp Ground, this 12th day of July, 1838.
"By order of the National Convention.
GEORGE LOWREY, "President of the Eastern Cherokee.
GEORGE GUESS, his (X) mark, "President of the Western Cherokee.
Eastern Cherokee
R. Taylor, V. P., James Brown, V. P., Te-KE-chu-las-kee, V. P., George Hicks, John Benge, Thomas Foreman, Archibald Campbell, Jesse Bushyhead, Lewis Ross, Edward Gunter, TE-nah-la-we-stah, Stephen Foreman, Daniel McCoy
By order of the National Convention; John Ross, "Principal Chief, Eastern Cherokee; GOING SNAKE, Speaker of Council.
Western Cherokee
Tobacco Will, V. P., Dave Melton, V. P., John Drew, V. P., James Campbell, Looney Riley, Charles Gourd, Lewis Melton , Young Wolfe, Charles Coody, Ah-sto-la-ta, Jack Spears, George Brewer, Thomas Candy, Mosses Parris, Looney Price.
By order of the National Convention; August 23, 1839; JOHN Looney', his (X) mark; Acting Principal Chief, Western Cherokee
The foregoing instrument was read, considered, and approved by us, this 23d day of August, 1839.
Aaron Price, Major Pullum, Young Elders, Deer Track, Young Puppy, Turtle Fields, July, The Eagle, The Crying Buffalo
First, notice Charles Goard. Did he come from Goard’s Settlement mentioned a few paragraphs back by Walker, as today known the town of Courtland, Lawrence County, Alabama? David and Lewis Melton BOTH signed this document on behalf of the Old Settlers. These Melton’s came from Melton’s Bluff, just a few miles downriver from the second Brown’s Ferry. These KNOWN mixed-Cherokee Melton’s were from Lawrence County, Alabama. They were right next to Brown’s Ferry where Jason Cloud most probably landed on many occasions. Jason was executor of the will of Aron Gist. Aron’s father John Gist was said to be some relation to Sequoyah, and Doublehead, who was said to be Sequoyah’s Uncle, lived right there as well until after the end of 1801, shortly after out Aron Gist was hung in October of 1801.
Another name found in both Lawrence County, Alabama and the Act of Union is from the Looney family. John Looney signed it. He was known as the nephew of Cherokee Chief Black Fox. There was a famous Union sympathizer during the Civil War known as Bill Looney, whose nickname was “The Black Fox”. Several Old Settler Cherokee families in Arkansas, Oklahoma and East Texas seem to have come from Northern Alabama families.
Before going off any further onto this tangent, I must say these things are just supporting evidence, just clues. In a court of law I believe this is called "circumstantial evidence". Is it enough? That’s easily answered -- I don’t know.
Conclusion – So Where Is Our Indian Blood?
We have provided evidence of a possible Catawba link. Brown and Wayland/Gibson are both Catawba surnames. Even Nathaniel Gist lived near the Catawba, not the Cherokee, for much of his life. We have shown Catawba migrations away from their homeland, one of which was to the Oklahoma/Arkansas border where my family eventually lived. But the Brown’s and Gist’s do seem to have links to the Cherokee as well.
We have two possible connections a generation apart between our Gist’s and the Cherokee Brown’s – the Jason Cloud connection about 1800-1815, and the Joiner connection in the 1840s. I also took that autosomal DNA test showing me to be mostly Caucasian, but with a little American Indian and a little sub-Sahara African DNA as well. This, together with the Ridenour book, and the family stories – it all adds up. The Swetland Roll Brown’s seem to have many names similar to ours, even the man named “Powell Brown” lived near our Brown’s in Arkansas, but ours was an old man when theirs was a child. And we both have an Alfred Brown, but theirs was older than mine. And there are other names similar as well. The reservation rolls might be a clue. A genealogist who is an enrolled Cherokee told me we DO descend from the man recorded as "John Brown Jr." on the Reservation Rolls.
It took me a long time (two decades or more), searching in libraries, court houses, books, magazines, journals, the internet, travelling hundreds of miles, and hundreds of hours pursuing dozens of wrong genealogical allies. Grudgingly I had to realize all those hours were wasted effort. I might yet find some more blind allies, or perhaps rich veins of valuable ore. I have a lot more background material on hand, but I might have shared too much of that already. I did not intend for this report to be as long as it is. I just hate not mentioning a lot more families whose descendants might one day be doing the same research. Maybe I’ll write that all down later. I have included evidence for the paternity of Sequoyah, knowing I have proven nothing, knowing I have only provided evidence. I hope others will consider the possibility that the Nathaniel Gist who was killed at Kings Mountain in 1780 might be Sequoyah’s father. Appendix 3 explores this possibility a little further.
I should take more time to organize all this stuff, but I am tired and have other things to do. If I included everything it not only would be 200 pages or more; but it would also be pretty boring – all those census records don’t make for interesting reading. I’ve tried to include interesting local or family historical tidbits. I didn’t know our family had or knew so many interesting characters. Well, I have to end this sometime and somewhere. So I suppose for now, well -- this is it.
I’d hoped to include anything about my family that would show our long tenure in Indian Country. We have for generations had stories of being Indian-mixed, but it wasn’t written down. We are not on the Indian rolls except maybe the Mulay, Siler, or Reservation Rolls. Brown’s Ferry’s (there are two of them) seems to be a connection as well. I found stories which connected our family stories to old tales about one bunch of Gist’s, proven to be related to one another, which seem to indicate the family stories might be true, about us being related to Sequoyah. Our Gist’s and Brown’s did live in a region in Northern Alabama where a Alabama state recognized band of Cherokee resides today. I won’t argue about whether states can recognize tribes or not – I’m not recognized as Indian by any state, either. Years back, I used to try to contact them, but they never responded, and I gave up on them.
Also, we do seem to have a Melungeon connection to the Eastern Siouans, the Catawba, Saponi, Cheraw/Saura/Xualla (What the early Spanish chroniclers with De Soto called them).
I have poured my heart and soul into this writing. I’ve been consumed by it. I’ll keep looking into it.
Well, I guess this’ll have to do for now – gotta run or I’ll be late for work and I’ll have my boss yellin’ at me. That’s not true. Some other poor sucker who thinks it’ll help him to get ahead will be ordered to do the yelling. (Just joking, the boss would never do that. :)
Neither pre-conceived yet unproven beliefs, nor ambition and greed will comprehend logic that is not skewed like a magnet, drawn towards that nursery rhyme jingle -- mirror, mirror on the wall. Logic is always just out of view of the skewed perception, diametrically opposed to its equal and opposite. Knowing that, I have tried to make my own research unbiased. That has always been difficult, as every moth knows when encountering a flame. I hope I am not just seeing what I want to see. I don’t think I am.
Oh, one more thing. With me, there’s always one last thing that I forgot to say.
We get whiter every generation as a result of being left off the rolls, and soon our Indian blood will be forgotten utterly, erased like footprints in melting snow. Like the Western Catawba. Like them and others, we’ll likely be forgotten, too.
So where is our Indian blood? It seems to be drying up, like a creek bed in the drought of the heat of the summer sun. But once upon a . . .
I suppose that’s one reason I’ve been compelled to write this -- It is evidence for generations to come, that we, their ancestors, were once here.
Appendix 1 –
Catawba King Haiglar’s Letter to Gov. Glen of South Carolina
From “History of the Old Cheraws,” by Alexander Gregg.
p 13 -- That the Pedees [Indians] owned slaves will appear from the following notice, published in the Gazette of the day, Aug 30-Sep 6, 1748 --
"Taken up by Michael Welch, overseer to the subscriber on an island called Uchee Island, a Negro fellow, who gives the following account of himself, viz., that he belonged formerly to Mr. Fuller, and he was by him sold to Billy, king of the Pedee Indians; that the Catawba Indians took him from King Billy, and carried him into their nation, and that in endeavoring to make his escape from the Catawba’s, he was lost in the woods, and had been so a considerable time before he was taken . . . Any person having any right or property in the said fellow, may apply to the subscriber, now in Charleston."
. . .
still p 13 --
The Pedees and other smaller tribes who now lead a wondering life, were in constant danger of being enticed off by the more powerful and hostile nations of Indians, to join them in their predatory excursions.
The following letters indicate the anxiety felt on the subject by the Catawba’s, as well as by the provisional government of this period, the first was addressed by the King of the Catawba’s to his excellency, James Glen, Esq : --
“There are a great many Pedee Indians living in the settlements that we want to come and settle amongst us. We desire for you to send for them, and advise -- page 14 -- this, and give them this string of wampum in token that we want them to settle here, and will always live like brothers with them. The Northern Indians want them to settle with us; for they are now at peace, they may be hunting in the woods or straggling about, killed by some of them, except they join us, and make but one nation, which will be a great addition of strength to us."
his mark, the (x) King"
[21 Nov, 1752]
Appendix 2 –
Some Catawba Moved Away
The following is from Senate Document 144 (54th Cong, 2d sess.). A descendant of the Mr. McDowell, a man who prepared a part of this document for the Guy and Jeffries families, was kind enough to share this document with me.
On the 21st of November, 1887, James Kegg, of Whittier, North Carolina, in addressing the Secretary of the Interior (# 31383), made the following statement, viz:
Many years ago, this people, the Catawba Indians, leased the land they owned in South Carolina and became a wondering tribe without homes for their wives and children. They made applications he states, to the Cherokees of North Carolina for homes upon their land and that about 500 or so were adopted that have been identified as such, that some 300 of them were removed west under the Cherokee treaty of New Echota, made December 29th, 1835, leaving a few living among the Cherokees . . . and a small portion remaining in South Carolina. . . . Those Catawba remaining in South Carolina, Mr. Kegg states, had no interest whatever in the lands which were leased out by those who became Cherokee by adoption . . . [Vance’s note: this clearly implied that most Catawba left the Catawba Nation. Those who left the Catawba Nation before the 1840 treaty, where those lands were given to the state of South Carolina, as no one could have “leased out” lands after that date.] it is interesting in p 53 of Dr. Blumer’s book, “Catawba Nation, Treasures in History”, he says of James Kegg that he was “not at all impassioned over preserving the Catawba reservation” and that “He thought that a move to join the Cherokee in North Carolina might be a good idea”. So we have a schism between the Catawba who left, and those Catawba who wanted to stay. According to Kegg, the majority left.
In “The Catawba Indians” by Douglas Summers Brown, he says (p 319): In 1840 when the Treaty of Nation Ford was signed, many of the Catawba’s were already living among and near the Eastern Band of Cherokees . . . [Vance’s note: ambiguous – before the removals of 1838-1839, before the “Trail of Tears” – ALL of the Cherokee east of the Mississippi were considered “The Eastern Band” -- including Rosses followers, the vast majority of Cherokee.]
Some Catawba “moved west” about 1835, others moved to live near the Eastern band of the Cherokee about the same time, about 1840. According to Kegg, only a small number of Catawba remained on their former lands in South Carolina. If he is right -- hundreds had left. What became of them?
Appendix 3 –
Evidence that Sequoyah’s Father Might Have Been the Other Nathaniel Gist
In the past I have heard of two men who have been said to be Sequoyah’s father. One was from “Se-Quo-Yah, The American Cadmus and Modern Moses: A Complete Biography of the greatest of Redmen (1885)” by George Everett Foster. He speaks of a Swabian-Franconian emigrant who settled in the new community of Ebenezer. They arrived in Georgia when it was just being settled by Oglethorpe about 1735. They had a baby and named him George. George became an Indian trader. While trading in Cherokee county, he had a son, Sequoyah. But before Foster’s book, there was the September 1870 issue of Harper’s Ferry by Phillips. This story was this George Gist was a sort of a shady character, and never cared about his Indian son, totally disappearing from history. And that is the problem with this story – this immigrant German Gist family has never been found.
According to Chronicles of Oklahoma, Volume 1, No. 2, October, 1921, THE PATERNITY OF SEQUOYA, THE INVENTOR OF THE CHEROKEE ALPHABET, By Albert V. Goodpasture, we have a discussion of another possible father of Sequoyah, Nathaniel Gist. It says --
Only one other man—Nathaniel Gist—has ever been suggested as the father of Sequoya, and his claim has not received serious consideration on account of the manner in which it was presented. The story as told by John Mason Brown is that Nathaniel Gist was captured by the Cherokees at Braddock’s defeat in 1755, and remained a prisoner with them for six years, during which time he became the father of Sequoya. On his return to civilization he married a white woman in Virginia by whom he had other children, and afterwards removed to Kentucky, where Sequoya, then a Baptist preacher, frequently visited him, and was always recognized by the family as his son. In reply to this claim Mooney points out that the Cherokees were allies of the British during the war in which Braddock’s defeat occurred; and that Sequoya, so far from being a Baptist preacher, was not even a Christian. For these positive errors, and some other improbabilities in Brown’s story, he classes it as one of those genealogical myths built on a chance similarity of name.
So Nathaniel was never captured by the Indians for six years, and he was never a Baptist Minister. With some falsehoods, can’t we suspect there might be others in this account? Yet it is the most popular story as to just who was Sequoyah’s father.
From Mysteries of Sequoyah, by Dub West, p. 2 & 3:
The house resolution accepting Sequoyah's statue for Statuary Hall gives his father as "a German trader named George Gist who dealt with contraband articles, and who abandoned his wife before Sequoyah was born ."Mooney said it is generally conceded that his father was George Gist. McKinney and Hall, Foster, Starr, and Phillips also subscribe to the George Gist theory. Foreman is the proponent of the theory that Sequoyah's father was Nathaniel Gist. He says that Major Gist Blair, who was owner of the Blair House in Washington at the time and a descendant of Nathaniel Gist, stated that Sequoyah was a son of Nathaniel Gist. In the Bureau of American Ethnology in a letter written by John Mason Brown of the Louisville Bar, who was a descendant of Nathaniel Gist, stated Sequoyah visited the Gist descendants on his way to or from Washington in 1828. On this occasion, he was looking for his White kin . . .
Jack Kilpatrick rejects the paternity of either George Gist or Nathaniel Gist, indicating that he possibly had some Caucasian blood, but very little -- that he appeared to be a full-blood. He further says that it is a mistake to emphasize the father of a Cherokee family, as the Cherokee society is matrilineal. Weaver says that Sequoyah appeared to be a full-blood.
As for me, I have read several books, as many as I could get my hands on (and will continue to do so), about Sequoyah. My opinion, based on my own reading which I admit has a bias, is that he was neither a son of this German Indian trader named George Gist, nor the Nathaniel Gist who was the son of Christopher Gist, friend of George Washington.
There have always been families who had family stories of a Guess/Gist/Guest ancestor who was related to Sequoyah in Northern Alabama by 1820, with a second bunch arriving years later. Now we have DNA tests that say literally all of these families with this family tradition, many of whom had lost track of each other over the years, are very closely related to one another. They are NOT closely related with other Gist/Guess/Guest families who do not have these family traditions of having some Indian blood, or having been related to Sequoyah. Through the research shown in this report there is a thin thread or ribbon or connecting documents that might show how these families are related, and show as well, how they might be related to Sequoyah.
Evidence points to a different Nathaniel Gist, a settler and founder of Gist’s Station in Wise County, Virginia, who had a hunting Camp in Southern Kentucky. Another bunch lived in northern Tennessee. Perhaps he also had a Cherokee child named Sequoyah as well. They were not a band of Indians that hid in the woods 200 years to suddenly pop up out of nowhere. They were mixed blood families just trying to survive as best they knew how.
Dr. G. L. Ridenour said in “Land of the Lake” John Gist was “some relation to Sequoyah.” Dr. Ridenour had ancestors who were close neighbors of this John Gist. The Dorsey’s in their book on the Maryland Gist’s say this John Gist was a son of this same Nathaniel Gist. He unfortunately, was killed at the Battle of Kings Mountain in 1780 during the American Revolution. This left his children essentially orphaned. Perhaps Sequoyah’s father was killed and that is why he abandoned his Indian sons.
Remember Foreman said:
. . . Major Gist Blair, who was owner of the Blair House in Washington at the time and a descendant of Nathaniel Gist, stated that Sequoyah was a son of Nathaniel Gist. In the Bureau of American Ethnology in a letter written by John Mason Brown of the Louisville Bar, who was a descendant of Nathaniel Gist, stated Sequoyah visited the Gist descendants on his way to or from Washington in 1828. On this occasion, he was looking for his White kin . . .
It appears Sequoyah was looking for his White kin, and that he went to the descendants of the famous Nathaniel Gist in search of them. This appears to be saying he had heard his father was named Nathaniel Gist. Now our family (and others) has been proven to descend from the other Nathaniel, who was contemporary with the famous Nathaniel. All of us that I have come across have family traditions of being related to Sequoyah. Dr. Ridenour in :Land of the Lake” also makes this same argument – independently stating these Gist’s were Sequoyah’s family. Well, it makes me suspect we might just be Sequoyah’s unknown family.
Lastly, my autosomal DNA test said I do have a small amount of American Indian autosomal DNA.
But this means nothing other than “maybe”. All we have done is provide evidence, and we haven’t been able to disprove our hypothesis, that we might be related to Sequoyah. We haven’t proven that Nathaniel Gist, the one killed at the Battle of Kings Mountain, was Sequoyah’s father.
No good scientist leaves something hanging that might be proven. Yes, now we have a way to prove or disprove it, through the autosomal DNA test. I make no claims – this could be wrong. I only suggest this as a possibility, and would like to see others look into it. Maybe Sequoyah’s descendants would like to know who his father was as well. Since our DNA is unique and doesn’t match the other Maryland Gist’s, it means we can prove or disprove the notion that we are related to Sequoyah’s true known descendants. However I would never try to put any burden on them. They have every right to be or not to be tested if that is their desire.
Albert Einstein hypothesized light from a distant star passing towards us would bend slightly if passing near the sun, and would show that space around a massive object would bend or distort light. Mathematically, it worked. But that wasn’t enough. A means of testing this distortion was possible, and they had to wait for a solar eclipse to prove it. After a couple of failed attempts, they eventually succeeded in proving his mathematical calculations were correct.
Well, I have researched all of the documents, or a sufficient number of them. We can make some educated guesses based on them, and we too have a means of testing them. And no, it won’t have the shattering consequences that Einstein’s theories of relativity and special relativity had – but it would be cool . . . J And if we’re wrong – well, darn it . . . L . . . won’t be the first time. As with the glass being half empty (as it seems is usually the case), those known relations of Sequoyah would have to take the test first, and maybe they won’t want to take it. And that’s alright, too. So it’s unlikely we will ever discover absolute proof that we are related to Sequoyah – but we might. Again, half empty. But we have come a long way from where we were.
Appendix 4 –
IPP Papers Written by Two of Sequoyah’s Descendants
TONEY, SUSAN FIELDS INTERVIEW #6751
(Cherokee)
Texanna, Oklahoma
Interview - July 12, 1937
Indian-Pioneer History
Jas. S. Buchanan, Field Worker
Note - the following statement of Mrs. Susan Toney, who does not speak English, only the Cherokee language, was interpreted through her son, Calvin Toney.
I (Susan Toney) was born in a refugee camp on Red River in the Choctaw Nation January 6, 1862, where my parents, with other Cherokees, had fled to escape the dangerous conditions that existed in the Indian Territory brought on by the Civil War.
My father was William Fields, fullblood Cherokee and my mother was Sallie (Gist) Fields, the daughter of Teasy Gist, the son of George Gist, or Sequoyah, Cherokee.
After the Civil War my parents moved back to their home place at the mouth of Dutch Creek on the Canadian River where my grandfather, Teasy Gist, died in 1869, when I was seven years of age. I remember his burial in the old Cherokee burial ground on the hill beside the old Dutch Creek trail two and one-half miles southeast of Texanna, or one and one-half miles west of the old home place. I have known of the old burial ground of the Cherokees since my earliest recollection and it was a very old burial ground at that time. It was abandoned about fifty years ago. There are only two white people buried in the place. They were two little white girls, children of a poor family that was living in the vicinity when their children died about 1911.
There were many of the early Cherokee buried at that place and it was always known as the Cherokee burial ground and no other name. There never was any grave markers with inscriptions at any of the graves, as the Indians in the early days kept the burial place of their dead sacred in their memory and the location designated by land-marks.
My great-grandfather, George Gist, prominent in Cherokee history, was born in Tennessee about 1760, and at an advanced age he came to the Indian Territory alone, leaving his family east of the Mississippi River. His short time in the Indian Territory was among the early Cherokee settlers.
Shortly after he came to the Territory he was joined by his son, Teesey Gist, my grandfather. Shortly thereafter George Gist (Sequoyah), Teesey Gist, his son and another Cherokee by the name of Ellen Boles, for reasons unknown, left the Indian Territory for Old Mexico. George Gist died on that journey somewhere in Mexico about 1847. After the death of Sequoyah, Teesey Gist and Ellen Boles left Mexico and went to Texas where they remained for some time and through a transaction of some description acquired a tract of land from Mexico, then attempted to colonize it with Cherokees which involved them in a difficulty with the Texas government that lead to the killing of Boles.
The story as it was handed down through my mother, that when they were involved in the trouble with the Texas people over the treaty they had made with Mexico, Boles and Teesey Gist attempted to escape from Texas with the treaty and was being pursued by their enemies when Boles was shot. Boles took the treaty from where he had it hid in the fold of his saddle blanket, handed it to Teesy Gist and said; “They have got me, you take this and ride for your life for this is what they are after.” Teesey Gist made good his escape with the treaty, though he never returned to Texas. I remember seeing the paper many times in later years as I grew up, I don’t know what became of it.
Page 415 - - Three family charts showing various relationships, as follows:
Teesey Gist (died 1869 Dutchers Creek)
Daughter Sallie Gist married William Fields
Daughter of Sallie Gist and William Fields was Susan Fields Toney, born 1862
Teesey Gist
Daughter Kate Gist married Downing, children of Kate Gist Downing:
1. Joseph Edward Downing (youngest 1883)
2. Nannie - - married L. McClure
3. Lucile - - - married Van Jargill
4. Teesey Downing
5. George Downing
6. Maude Downing
Lineage of Calvin H. Toney
George Guess
Teesey Gist (Guess)
Sallie Fields
Susan Fields Toney
Calvin H. Toney, children of Calvin Toney are:
Lucy Toney
Ellis Toney
Susie Toney
TONEY, CALVIN HARRISON INTERVIEW #7100
Calvin Harrison Toney, Cherokee.
Texanna, Oklahoma.
August 11, 1937.
Indian-Pioneer History.
Jas. S. Buchanan, Field Worker.
The following, including genealogy of descent from Sequoyah, is compiled from authentic information and through the cooperation of Calvin Toney and his mother, Susan (Fields) Toney, she being the grand-daughter of Teasey Guess, the son of Sequoyah.
Sequoyah was born about 1770, in the old Cherokee country, within one of the present states of Tennessee, Georgia or Alabama; the exact location is unknown.
His father was a German peddler by the name of Gist, who, like many wandering traders of those days, came among the Indians to ply his trade, and during his stay among the Cherokees he chose a wife from among the Indians, He, being an obscure wanderer, a part of the adventurous flotsam of the border of civilization, eventually deserted his wife.
Sequoyah was born soon after his father had deserted his mother, and he grew to manhood among the Cherokees and as his mother spoke only the Cherokee language, Sequoyah grew up without learning the English language. His knowledge of English was gained in later years of his life, Sequoyah, from his father’s name, Gist, acquired the name George Guess.
During his boyhood he was afflicted with what is commonly called “white swelling” in a knee joint which caused a lameness that remained with him the remainder of his life. Sequoyah was about five feet and nine inches in height, slender in form, a light sallow complexion and grey eyes. In his dress he clung to the customs of his people, wearing a turban, hunting shirt, leggings and moccasins. The Turban was a strip of cloth or a small shawl twisted about his head. The hunting shirt was a loose sack coat made of buck skin or home spun woolen cloth that was made by the Cherokee women. The moccasins were made from tanned buckskin.
The first vocation to which he adapted himself in early life was that of a blacksmith, later that of a silversmith.
Sequoyah’s first wife was Sallie of the Bird clan and his second wife was U-ti-yu of the Savanah clan.
His four children by his first wife were:
Tessey Guess, who married U-ti-yu and Rebecca Bowl. He was born in 1789 and died September 17th, 1867. His second wife, Rebecca Bowl was the daughter of Bowl, who was the leader of the band of Cherokees that emigrated from Mussel Shoals, on Tennessee River, to the St. Francis River country (now southeast Missouri) in 1794; moved to Petit Jean Creek on the south side of the Arkansas River in the winter of 1811-1812, finally removed to Texas in 1822 and became the leader of the Texas Cherokees. While with Teesey Guess, resisting expulsion from Texas, Bowl was killed July 16th, 1839.
Sequoyahs’s second child by Sallie was George Guess, who lived to be grown but died without descent. Richard or Chusaleta, the fourth child and third son, also lived to be grown and died without descent.
Sequoyah’s third child by Sallie was his daughter Polly who married Flying and Thomas Brewer. She only had one child, Annie, who married Joseph Griffin and was the mother of Ti-du-gi-yo-sti.
Sequoyah had three children by his second wife, U-ti-yu, the eldest of whom was A-yo-gu Guess, who married George Starr and they were the parents of one son, Joseph Starr, who was born December 25th, 1873, and died without issue inn 1895.
Sequoyah’s second child by U-ti-yu was Oo-loo-tea, a daughter, who left no descent.
Sequoyah’s third child by his second wife was Gu-u-ne-ki, who married Tsu-du-li-tee-hee or Sixkiller and had one daughter, Araminta Sixkiller.
Sequoyah’s eldest son, Teesey, had three children by his first wife and three by his second wife. His oldest child by his first wife, U-ti-yu, was George Guess, who married a Girty and they were the parents of two children, the elder of whom was Mary Guess, who married George Mitchell and Andrew Russell, and by the latter was the mother of one child only, George W. Russell, who was born on July 18th, 1880, and married Minnie Holston.
Teesey Guess’s second and third children by his first wife were respectively Richard and Joseph Guess, both of whom lived to be grown but died without issue.
Teesey Guess’s children by Rebecca, his second wife, were first, Sallie, who married William Fields, whose Cherokee name was Tu-noo-ie. They had one daughter, Susan Fields, who married Levi Toney and they were the parents of consecutively: Calvin Harrison Toney, Cicero Davis Toney, Margaret Toney and the twins, Catherine and Sallie Tooney.
Teesey Guess’s second child by Rebecca was a son, Joseph Guess, who lived to be grown but died without issue.
Teesey Guess’s third child by Rebecca was Catherine Guess. she was born in 1851 and married on March 11th, 1867, Joseph Downing. they were the parents of six Children as follows:
Nannie Downing, born February 1st, 1878.
Loucile Downing, born July 28th, 1881
Joseph Edward Downing, born march 22, 1883
Teesey Downing, born ______
Maud Downing, born February 13, 1890
At the time of this writing (1937), Susan (Fields) Toney, her son, Calvin Harrison Toney and his wife, who was Leona Davis, the daughter of Jug Davis, whom he married in 1906 and their five children, Lucy, Ellis, Susie, Surphronia and Sanders are all living on the original allotment of Susan (Fields) Toney, two and one half miles southeast of Texanna.
Joseph Edward Downing is living in Texanna
Notes by Don Sticher, January 2009:
The origins of Sequoyah as presented here appear to come from an 1870 Harper’s Magazine article by William A. Phillips and the also from the work of Dr. Emmett Starr, the Cherokee historian, who stated after much painstaking research:
"His father is reputed to have been a Suabian peddler. His name, when it was recalled years afterward, so as to bestow it on his son, sounded something like Gist. He was an obscure wanderer, a part of the adventurous flotsam of the border of civilization."
The exact same words were used in the above article describing the origins of Sequoyah.
Vance’s note: Those words are also found in Foster’s book, “Sequoyah, The American Cadmus . . .” Foster’s book was first written in 1885. Starr’s book was written in 1921. So it appears as though the Phillips article for Harper’s Magazine dated 1870 was the first article mentioning the German peddler. Unfortunately, as was the custom of many writers of that time frame, Phillips lists no sources at all to justify his claims. We are left to take his word for it. This alone is enough to raise an eye brow. As with many things concerning the early Cherokee, some things we will just never know.
Appendix 5 –
Gess’s Station Camp, established around 1775 in Wayne County, KY
Note: In 1805, Colonel Thomas Young had a survey made to establish the original trace or path from Price’s Landing to the starting corner of his (Young’s) property. Ten depositions of early hunters and settlers were introduced to help the surveyor identify the various landmarks referred to through the years. One of these deponents was Nathaniel Buchannon, who was part of the original company with Benjamin Price on the first trip.
Please note the mention of “Guesses Station Camp”. Notice he mentions Price’s Camp and Gesses Station Camp as though they were contemporary with each other, and he mentions being at Price’s Camp in 1775.
Wayne County, KY Deed Book A, Page 213-216 (LDS Film #590703)
The deposition of Nathaniel Buckhannon of lawful age and first sworn deposeth that some time in the year 1795 this Dept. in company with Benjamin Price & others launched a canoe above the mouth of this Creek to __?__ meadow Creek and cross the river and ever after the place was called and known by the name of Prices landing because Price was considered by us the head of the Company.
Question by Young - - Was there not at that time a trace leading from this place to Prices meadows?
Ans. - - Yes there was and generally travelled at that time
Question by Mills - - Was there not another trace leading from or near Prices landing to the meadows made sometime since your acquaintance with the first trace?
Ans. - - Yes there was
Quest. by same - - By whom was the last trace spoken of made?
Ans. - - By this Dept. I marked it myself in the year 1779 leading from a Salt Petre Cave between this and the great meadows. Also to intersect the old trace some distance beyond the top of the River Cleft.
Quest. by same - - After the new trace was marked out by you was discovered was not the old one neglected in a great manner and the new one the most travelled?
Ans. - - Yes because it was then the most plain, our company travelled it the most.
Quest. by same - - Was there any company in the these woods at that time besides yours?
Ans. - - I do not know of any who were hunting in these woods but ours at that time but Mr. Michael Stoner, Green & others came to be at the great meadows.
Question by same - - How long after marking the new trace spoken of did your company travel it before your departure from the meadows?
Ans. - - From February until the July following
Ques. by same - - What was your Companies motive for preferring the travelling the new trace to the old one?
Ans. - - Because we thought it was nearest from the landing to the meadows and because we had encamped in the salt petre cave six or eight weeks and by that means the new trace became more plain than the old one.
Question by Young - - Was there not another trace besides the two above spoken of leading from Cumberland River to Prices Meadows?
Yes, from Gesses Station Camp near the big Cotton to Prices meadows.
Ques. by Mills - - How far was Gesses Station Camp from the mouth of Pitmans Creek?
Answer - - Opposite on the contrary side of the River.
Question by Young - - Was not the trace last spoken of very much travelled?
Ans. - - It was our general crossing place when we came to or returned from Prices meadows.
Question by same - - Was not the trace leading by the salt petre cave generally called the salt petre cave trace?
Ans. - - Yes it was.
Quest. by same - - By whom was it called the salt petre cave trace?
Ans. - - Our Company called it the trace leading by the salt petre cave.
Question by Young - - Are you certain the trace you shewed the Surveyor this morning is Prices Old Trace leading from the landing to his improvement?
Ans. - - I am certain it is a s far as from the River to the Rush Glade and divers places this side of that.
Question by same - - Are you certain this spot is Prices old improvement?
Ans. - - I was here with Price in 1775 and assisted in building this Cabin and the Glade facing the Camp nearly a North Eastwardly course was at that time bare of timber and not more than 70 or 80 yards from the Camp and the meadow ground as this Dept. thinks extended somewhere about a quarter and half a quarter of a mile across.
Question by same - - Was there not a pond somewhere not far from here?
Ans. - - There was.
Question by same - - What was the name of that pond & what course was it from here?
Ans. - - a Northwardly course.
Quest. - - What size was that pond?
Ans. - - a very large one an hundred yards or thereabouts across and am not certain as to its length. And further the Dept. Saith Not.
Nathaniel Buckhannon
Wayne County, KY Deed Book A, Page 220-221 (LDS Film #590703)
We do hereby certify that the foregoing Depositions were taken at the respective specialties referred to in them and that the several witnesses were duly sworn & subscribed each his own Deposition. We do moreover certify that Col. Thos. Young produced to us three different advertisements continued in the Kentucky Herald purposing notice of his intentions to Perpetuate Testimony and that the annexed platt of the distance from his Beginning Corner to Prices Landing was executed in our presence by the Deputy Surveyor of Wayne County & that said Young also presented an acknowledged Notice executed by John Mills, Sr. and that there were marks made by Jesse Wright & Wm. Brown disinterested bystanders on a white oak tree said to be near Young’s Beginning. Given under our hands and seals this 29th day of August 1805; Anthony Gholson, Isaac West
Wayne County, KY Deed Book A, Page 222 (LDS Film #590703)
The Plat (or Map) referred to regarding the 29 August 1805 survey of Prices Old Trace, for Thomas Young.
Wayne County, KY Deed Book A, Page 223 (LDS Film #590703)
No date given for this entry. Presumed to be 28-29 August 1805 based on depositions given in the preceding pages that relate to this survey. Surveyed Price’s old trace for Thomas Young Beginning at Prices Canoe Landing at Letter A and running then S.20.W. 18p. thence S.19 E. 22p. thence 45.E.10p. thence S.36.E. 68p. thence S. 62 E. 28p. to the fork of the trace where one lead to the Salt Peter Cave and the other to Prices Meadows then courses supposed to be N.37.E.420p. to the salt petre Cave by Capt. Buckhannon and Mr. John McLuer then continuing S.62.E. line 52p. thence S.36.E.140p then S.52.E.24p. then to a small white oak thence S.70.E.180 poles then S.55.E.210p. to Prices Old Improvement then from Prices Old Improvement to the salt petre Cave is supposed to be N.13.W. 355p. thence to Young’s Beginning corner is S.20.E. 408p thence N.40.W. 450p a straight line to the beginning.
J. J. Jones D.S., Chanes C. C., James Hutchenson, Robert Hutchenson
Appendix 6
The Cut Throat Gap Massacre
The Writing on the Historical Marker (below) says:
The Cut Throat Massacre site is approximately 2.5 miles east of this marker.
In the early summer of 1833, the summer before "the stars fell" an Osage War Party attacked an undefended Kiowa camp.
The camp of Islandman, Principle Chief of the Kiowa’s, consisted of women and children, the elderly, and a few warriors. Most of the warriors were on a raid against the Utes while others were hunting buffalo.
The Osage tracked Islandman’s band from Saddle Mountain through the mountains to the campsite. Early one morning the Osage raiders struck the camp. The Kiowa’s, surprised and outnumbered, were unable to organize a defense. The few warriors tried to hold the Osage back to allow the women, children and elderly a chance to flee. It has been estimated that 150 Kiowa’s were killed.
Kiowa warriors found the camp destroyed and decapitated bodies lying where they had fallen. Before leaving the Osage put the heads of their victims in camp cooking pots. They took the sacred Tai-Me medicine bundle. Two captives, a boy named Thunder and a girl named White Weasel, and many horses were taken. Thunder died during captivity. White Weasel was returned to her family in 1834 by the first Dragoon Expedition [Vance’s note: this is the same expedition that I have written about earlier in this report].
For allowing the camp to be surprised Islandman was removed as principle chief. To-Hau-San was chosen to replace Islandman and served as Principle Chief from 1833 to 1866.
Little Bear recorded the massacre on his calendar. It was known to the Kiowa as “the Summer they cut off their heads.” The sight of the massacre later became known as “Cut Throat Gap.”
Later Chief To-Hau-San, with the assistance of the United States Indian Agents, negotiated with the Osage tribe for the return of the Tai-Me medicine bundle.
While Ta-Hau-San was Chief the Kiowa resisted all efforts by the United States to pacify them and it is said that he never lost a battle he fought with the United States Cavalry.
Oklahoma Historical Society
Kiowa Historical Society
The above event, the Cutthroat Gap Massacre, was one reason for the Dragoon Expedition that My Wayland’s participated in while serving at Fort Gibson, Indian Territory, in the 1830s. Many tribes were about to be settled in Indian Territory and the government knew this would cause tension between the Indians who already were living in Indian Territory (Oklahoma), those called the Indigenous Tribes (Quapaw, Osage, Caddo and associated bands, Wichita and associated bands, Kiowa, Comanche, Tonkawa, and others) and those called Emigrant Tribes (Cherokee, Creek, Choctaw, Chickasaw, Seminole, Delaware, Shawnee, Miama, Sac and Fox, and others).
So the government sent troops to meet the Southern Plains tribes and secure a treaty with them. Two Cherokee signed that treaty, Captain Dutch, supposed to be Sequoyah’s half-brother. David Melton, of the Cherokee Melton’s from Melton’s Bluff in Northern Alabama, also signed it. Melton’s Bluff is just a few miles from the second Brown’s Ferry, the same place I suspect my Brown’s came from. This same David Melton with his brother, Lewis, were two of many who signed the Cherokee “Articles of Union”, a document unifying the Cherokee Old Settlers, Ross’s faction, and the Treaty Party.
Appendix 7
CHISHOLM, JESSE (ca. 1805-1868)
I noticed there was a Chisholm Ranch mentioned with respect to Tarleton Bull in Denton County, Texas. I thought I needed to discover more about him. I am providing excerpts and a photo from the article found here:
http://digital.library.okstate.edu/encyclopedia/entries/C/CH067.html
It says:
Of Scottish and Cherokee descent, plainsman Jesse Chisholm is best remembered today by the Chisholm Trail, the famous route of cattle drives across Indian Territory (present Oklahoma) from Texas to Kansas. He was, however, far more historically significant as a frontier trader who first worked among the Plains Indians and served as a mediator in their dealings with the Cherokee Nation, the Republic of Texas, and the United States.
Chisholm first emerged into historical notice as a member of a gold-searching party that explored up the Arkansas River to the site of present Wichita, Kansas, in 1826. Four years later he helped blaze a trail from Fort Gibson to Fort Towson, and in 1834 he was a member of the Dodge-Leavenworth Expedition, which made the first official contact with the Comanche, Kiowa, and Wichita near the Wichita Mountains in southwestern Oklahoma . . .
Stan Hoig © Oklahoma Historical Society
So Jesse Chisholm was also along on the same expedition as Cherokees David Melton and Captain Dutch. They must be three of the eight Cherokee mentioned as being on this expedition. My Jarrett and James Wayland were also present. They were first cousins to my great-great-grandma. Also present was a “Melton” Welborne as a member of Bean’s Rangers. I do not know if he was related to the Cherokee Melton’s.
http://www.dentoncounty.com/historicalmarkers/default.asp
Found at the link above is a Texas historic marker discussing the origins of the name of the town of Bolivar, Denton County, Texas.
It says:
Named indirectly for Simon Bolivar, South American statesman, general and patriot. It might have been called "New Prospect," but for a mug of rum. When town was founded in 1852, a man who had settled here from Bolivar, Tenn., wanted to name the community in honor of his hometown. But a preacher-doctor insisted that it be named New Prospect. An election was called to settle the matter and the Tennessean exchanged mugs of rum for votes, Bolivar won. During the 1800s, Bolivar was the westernmost fort in Denton County and the first settlement west of Collin County. Two stagecoach lines changed horses here. The town thrived and could countthree hotels, several stores, a gin, a flour mill, a sawmill, a blacksmith shop, a saloon, a church and a school. It was here that the Texas cattle trail joined the Jesse Chisholm Trail, but it was John Chisum, Texas cattle baron, who had herds here and furnished beef to the Confederacy during the Civil War. Bolivar and the surrounding area were havens for Sam Bass and his men. Two Bolivar men were jailed in 1890 for harboring notorious marauders. Many early settlers (whose descendants still live here) played important roles in development of county.
It turns out the Chisholm Cattle trail started in Denton County, Texas, where my family lived in the early 1880s. It’s just to the North of the Dallas/Fort Worth area. Several cattle trails in Texas met up there, became one, and continued on through Indian Territory and on to Kansas. The trail went right through what is now Duncan, Oklahoma, which is where my great grand-parents leased land in the Chickasaw Nation once they left Denton County, by the way. We lived there before Duncan was founded. Those cattle leases showed my great grandpa leased out land for cattle grazing on Kiowa lands. We probably didn’t know Jesse, but might have seen or heard of him passing through and might have known of his fame.
But there was a big cattleman in Denton County also named John Chisum. After further research, it seems the ranch mentioned with respect to Tarleton Bull was his, not Jessse’s. However since Jesse was along on the 1834 Dragoon Expedition to the Comanche, Kiowa, and Wichita, as were two of my Wayland’s, I am including this little tidbit. Chisholm and Chisum are not known to have been related.
References
1. History of Tillman County, Oklahoma, vol. 2
2. The University of Oklahoma, Western History Collection, Indian Pioneer Papers Collection http://digital.libraries.ou.edu/whc/pioneer/
3. Denton Record Chronicle, Wednesday, January 3, 2007, Nita Thurman
4. Genealogy of the Jackson Family, © 1890, Hugh Park Jackson, Hugh Hogue Thompson, and James R. Jackson
5. Sketches of Texas pioneers published in the magazine “Frontier Times” which was published monthly at Bandera, Texas by J. Marvin Hunter. December 1923, Vol. 1, No. 3
6. Photo taken from “A Study in Tolerance with Genealogy,” by William Lee McCormick, the author being in the photo as well, on the far right, wearing a bow tie and his hands behind his back. The newspaper clipping wasdated the 29th of August, 1929 That is probably when the photo was taken.
7. From “Pioneers and Makers of Arkansas”, p 339-342 by Josiah H. Shinn, A. M :
8. “The History of Methodism in Arkansas,” p 29-36
9. The Story of Methodism in Oklahoma" as being compiled by J. Y. Bryce, of the East Oklahoma Conference and S. H. Babcock, of the West Oklahoma Conference.
10. Chronicles of Oklahoma; Volume 7, No. 4, December, 1929, BEGINNING OF METHODISM IN INDIAN TERRITORY, J. Y. Bryce
11. “Lawrence County, Arkansas Historical Journal”, Summer 1982 - Volume 4 - Number 3, History of Methodism in Walnut Ridge:
12. “Lawrence County, Arkansas Historical Journal”, Summer 1982 - Volume 4 - Number 3, History of Methodism in Walnut Ridge:
13. http://www.rootsweb.com/~okgs/roster_of_beans_rangers.htm; Ft. Gibson, Oklahoma; August 25 – October 31, 1832; From Oklahoma Genealogical Society Quarterly Vol. 24, No. 1, 1979; Transcribed to Electronic form by Jo White; From Appendix II – of Western Journals of Washington Irving; Edited and Annotated by John Francis McDermott; Published by University of Oklahoma Press, 1944. Reprinted here by permission. Submitted by Mrs. Joyce A. Rex.
14. http://firstdragoons.org/unit_history.htm
15. I can no longer find this website.
16. “Arkansas Mexican War Soldiers Historical Highlights” by Jay Brent Tipton.
17. The Arkansas Gazette, June 25, 1846
18. The Wayland Files, Frances Davey
19. Most of the documents in this section can be found here –
20. Excellent source material on the Melungeons: Melungeons and other Pioneer Families by Jack H. Goins; Who’s Your People? . . . a Dissertation . . . submitted to Michigan State University 2003 by [now] Dr. Richard Allen Carlson, Jr.; Melungeons, Examining an Appalachian Legend by Pat Spurlock Elder; . . . Piedmont Catawba . . . compiled by Richard Haithcock. Goins mentions the minutes of the Stoney Creek Primitive Baptist Church, a church attended by my Wayland’s. Carlson and Haithcock show direct genealogical links between the Saponi (and other) Eastern Siouan Indian, known Melungeon families, and people in Ohio called the “Carmel Indians”. Elder shows direct lines from the Piedmont Catawba, composed of several bands of the Catawba (Eastern Siouan Peoples) and those known as “Melungians.
21. “Catawba Indians of South Carolina” by H. Lewis Scaife
22. http://digital.library.okstate.edu/kappler/vol2/toc.htm -- all treaties between the United States government at the various tribes came be found here
23. As you can see from the above (21) link – there has never been a treaty between the Catawba and the United states government. There were treaties with the United Kingdom and South Carolina, but never with the United States government. Even though the Catawba sided with the United States during the Revolutionary War, the Catawba were considered of little consequence, and were brushed aside. The following books are excellent sources of material on the Catawba. The Catawba Indians, the People of the River, by Douglas Summers Brown; Catawba Nation, Treasures in History, by Dr. Thomas J. Brown; History of the Old Cheraws, by Alexander Gregg; A Guide to the Indian Tribes of Oklahoma, by Muriel H. Wright. That’s right, she even has a section on the Catawba. Others are, Monacans and Minors by Samuel R. Cook; Red Carolinians by chapman J. Milling; The Last Trek of the Indians and The Five Civilized Tribes, both by Grant Foreman.
24. The Fort Smith Elevator; http://newspaperarchive.com/fort-smith-elevator/
25. The Vinita Indian Chieftain; http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn/sn83025010/
The Missouri University of Science and Technology at Rolla contains a collection of papers donated by the Smith family, descendants of David Smith, son-in-law of James Havens.
27. Christopher Gist of Maryland and Some of His Descendants 1679-1957; by Jean Muir Dorsey and Maxwell Jay Dorsey.
28. http://ncgenweb.us/cumberland/cumberland.htm. Much of the information about these Gist’s and Smith’s can be found at the above link.
29. Colonel Return Jonathan Meigs Day Book Numbr 2, compiled by James L. Douthat
30. Davey Crockett, His Own Story by Davey Crockett
31. The following books tell of Cherokee families in Northern Alabama; Warrior Mountain Folklore and Doublehead, both by Ricky Butch Walker
32. Footsteps of the Cherokees, A Guide to the Eastern Homelands of the Cherokee Nation by Vicki Rozema.
33. South Fork Country by Samuel D. Walker mentions some mixed race families that moved into Southern Kentucky.
34. More books about Sequoyah: The Mysteries of Sequoyah by C. W. “Dub” West; Sequoyah by Grant Foreman; and Se-Qou-Yah, The American Cadmus and Modern Moses: A Complete Biography of the Greatest of Redmen (1885) by George Everett Foster.
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